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246 lines
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth?
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Michael Brenner Studied Mechanical Engineering & Comparative Linguistics at Vienna University of Technology · Updated Feb 18
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A good place to start talking about maps is a quote from one of the answers here:
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F. Fredericksen writes: “….. that means that any flat maps we make of the Earth either will distort the angles between distant regions, or else distort their relative sizes.”
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…. and that is the accepted yet unreflected view of most people who have never navigated any length across open waters, or studied time zone maps at any depth, people who have never heard of magnetic declination.
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The globe is a projection like any other projection with its own distortions, but these are so cleverly hidden, that it takes some time and some experience out in the field to realise just how distorted a globe geometry actually is. Well, not the 2D representations of the globe, as all of them are naturally heavily distorted, but also your actual globe spinning in its inclined stand on your desk is heavily distorted - because not representing actual reality - and that gives the first and the short part of the answer: we have no trustworthy map of earth, neither in 2D nor in 3D.
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There are two basic types of maps: a map that gives instructions …… a type of map we are not used to reading anymore because they were made for people who actually used them to get places.
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…. anUdpmvoateps· t9hat pretend to15b8e a bird’s eye view of reality….. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 1/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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Your globe is a mixture of both: it pretends to be objective geometry, but you can't use it that way and hope to arrive where you planned to go ……
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- you still have to follow instructions, and these instructions are hidden in the magnetic declination.
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 2/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora “Magnetic declination is the angle between magnetic north and true north. Declination is positive when this angle is east of true north and negative when it is west. Magnetic declination changes over time, and with location.”
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That sounds innocent enough, why would the magnetic field not have irregularities that you have to adjust for with your compass course. Well, yes, if it would be irregularities within bounds that would be unspectacular and not worth mentioning, but it is not an irregularity, it represents the regularity of a reality that is beyond your wildest dreams.
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Lets first have a look at the so called “North Pole”: we see right away that there is nothing irregular to this picture, this is a magnetic quadrupole ……
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…. field lines which arise only if you have two polarities in opposition as can be demonstrated with two magnets under a ferrocell:
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Judging from that pattern we should expect TWO opposing poles and lo and behold there are TWO SOUTH POLES in opposition positioned on a flat plane:
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 3/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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Because that can of course not be taught, it’s called declination and baked into a “steering instruction” that gets you from A to B, benign in the northern regions, but getting massive in southern waters.
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….so much so that below 60˚S latitude it really gets out of control with up to 170˚ “declination”. This is the reason why casual, private “expeditions” into these latitudes are NOT allowed, contrary to what many Quoran's want to believe. And all expeditions to Antarctica are controlled and mostly focused on two points, the two points with minimum declination: one south of Cap Horn, and one south from Australia.
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 4/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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With these “instructions” you get from A to B sure enough, but you have no Idea what the earth looks like, you are following steering instructions, just like in the good old times where that was all you got.
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Here on Quora pilots have taken over the seat of judgement, elevated by the audience to a position of quasi infallible demi gods, yet how long have pilots been “up there”? and how long have captains navigated the oceans, and kept meticulous log entries about every aspect of their journey? roughly ten times as long, so captains it is, and that includes captains and crew of Whitebread, Vendée Globe and Ocean Volvo races: between 50˚S and 60˚S they race at an average of 18knots in 40 days “around the globe” - which makes for almost 10.000km more than a globe has at 55˚lat. This is a long standing item in log book entries from voyages to southern latitudes, which always refer to more miles encountered than there should be according to globe assumptions. Then there are the endless lamentations about the long, dark and cold nights in these latitudes even during summer, which is reported as being very demanding on the crew: I have sailed a lot between 50˚N and 65˚N and there are no long, dark nights in summer and earth being allegedly symmetric, there should be no long dark nights in Summer Southern latitudes either: yet there’s not a single genuine 24/7 light video from the south, on the other hand there is not a single faked one from the north - because there you don't need to fake it.
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Scott Amundsen South Pole station: a collection of 6years of manipulated “24/7” time lapse clips, pretending to show 24h light in the summer and 24 h darkness in winter, so cheaply done that you can watch the time stamps and the shadows jump over 10 hrs.
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And that gets us to the most important player, causing the greatest problem in this scheme: the Sun! and with the sun the time and with the time the time-zones. Would earth be a globe spinning in front of the sun, the time zones would be naturally falling in place, with some political motivated kinks in it, but generally it should follow a 15˚ per hour rule “from pole to pole”, so when we approach the dateline from one side and the other the sun should be in the same position, but the counting a day apart, right?…. wrong! if you want to paste a flat surface onto a ball, you have to manipulate the centre, i.e. what becomes the North Pole region, as well as the equator and below so that now we have only 21 Time Zones going around the “globe” from Alaska all the way around until we stand on the Russian shore just opposite Alaska again, or better still: calling from St Lawrence Island belonging to Alaska a friend in Laurentia 200km dead north belonging to Russia, and do so Sunday noon: we would expect our friend to tell us that it https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 5/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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is already Monday noon, but wouldn't we be surprised to hear it is only Monday 9am? Where have three time-zones gone missing? …. how convenient aren't language barriers which make such a phone call unlikely.
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Or on a larger scale: the Sun in Siberia at 140˚longitude must be at the same azimuthal position as in Australia at 140˚ longitude, that is, in the same time zone which means same noon time: but it’s not, it is two hours behind - why?
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…. there is no political reason for that, it is the result of distortion by the globe projection which doesn't fit the Sun’s path. We have to assume that people in Adelaide call noon when the sun is in the zenith, not two hours before that, and the same goes for the few people living in Siberia, because they are no idiots either, they call noon when they see it, not two hours off.
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 6/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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These distortions are securely placed in locations where there is least attention guaranteed, wherefore most time zone maps have Siberia and Alaska on opposite sides of the page where no one looks and compares, but it is there at the dateline where the cup shuffle is happening. At the equator we have 26 timezones, with Kiribati counting -14hrs from Greenwich. And that means Antarctica can’t at all be what it is shown to be, it’s not even one continent, it’s also not an ice wall around a disc shaped earth resting on elephants and turtles, the magnetic polarities give it away: there must be two massive continents down there with a passage in between, something that modern ships positioning systems also confirm: the green ship here below is a tanker plowing what is allegedly a 2km ice cover over rock at 82˚S lat - hauling what? from where? for whom? registered in Kiribati, which is a clandestine Chinese shipping base.
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….. or here ships busy in what is photoshopped in as mountain range:
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 7/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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and then in single file outta there!
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The fact that we are not allowed to see even a rough suggestion of the south and neither any detail of the north, despite the fact that Google Earth brags about being able to check “from space” if the laundry is out in a courtyard …..
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….. should give us pause for thought and reflect over the appalling lack of a real world map, because a globe very obviously is not a representation of where we live. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 8/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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If you take magnetic declination for what it really is and draw a map accordingly, it would look as natural as the winds on nullschool global windmap over the AE projection: because it looked too natural and convincing the owner of nullschool had to take it offline and now only those who took screenshots have access to that information.
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And this is a suggested correction to the AE projection based on old maps that showed what the Bering Straight between Alaska and Russia looks like: This also fits better with sailing records over the Atlantic vs the Pacific etc.
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Despite a total lack of anything accurate in way of maps one thing can be ascertained: a sine wave is not how a rocket, a satellite or a moon traces around a globe: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share=… 9/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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take the dots from above and put them on the meridians of a AE projection:
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…or put the traces of several lunar eclipses together: and overlay them on a Gleeson map:
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share… 10/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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Like the winds, these traces only make sense over a flat surface and are completely ridiculous around a globe - but they have to trace it that way because it is observed on ground, it just doesn't make any kind of sense once you wrap it around a ball. You are so used to seeing these diagrams that you experience them as “matter of factish” as “scientific” when in fact they are complete nonsense….
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they are as nonsensical as projections like these….
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share… 11/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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… although you could argue that the information given is corresponding to observations.
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But neither the Globe nor the Gleeson nor any other map so far presented can be the whole picture, and old references to the world, in fact the oldest references to the shape of the world give a hint: the “four corners of the world” is the ubiquitous and most common phrase used by all peoples throughout the ages and this certainly does not refer to a globe. If we start with the magnetic phenomenon - a phenomenon most everyone agrees manifests the framework of our world as well as our protector - then we need to go full out and study what two polarities actually create: and that is a squarish figure with “four corners” between the polarities and a magnetic dome above it.
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1.4K views · View 9 upvotes · Answer requested by Sandrine
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1 of 15 answers
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Add a comment...
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Martin Dennett · 1y
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Michael
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Add comment
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etc. Why is it that when you can’t respond to a comment, you feel the need to delete it?
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share… 12/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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I’ve asked you several times for the coordinates for the ship stuck in the Antarctic ice but you seem reluctant to provide them.
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Tell me, has any globe / moon landing believer ever deleted any of your comments?
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Darren Steven · 1y
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You need to go sailing in that 50 to 65 south range yourself. You will find it's just like it's northern counterparts. To claim the Gleason map is useful for navigation is a joke. Have you been to Australia? It just doesn't work. Also, back to our orig(minoar…e)
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Michael Brenner · 1y
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I never claimed the Gleeson map is correct, on the contrary, I claimed we do not have a trustworthy map yet, we only have instructions - and they don't match a globe without serious distortions.
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Darren Steven Small maps match excellently, and the distortions are understood an…
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Laszlo Petruska · 1y
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You mention two south poles, meaning two poles where the vector fields all point toward the center of the planet. That’s nothing new. All magnets do that. In the 1900th century they got the geometry of the magnetic field with this experi(meo…re)
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share… 13/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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Michael Brenner · 1y
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No, I didn’t mean that at all: the single bar magnet is the wrong analogy, it’s two magnetic polarities opposite each other on a plane which create a quadrupole like magnetic structure between them - which is what is actually observed, but they brush it under the carpet by calling it declination.
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Laszlo Petruska Well as you know very well, both poles of the magnet and the planet…
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Hasmal Dawn · 1y
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Shane Michaels · 1y
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Is this intentional or did you forget that the seasons are opposite and the globe is tilted? Winter has shorter hours of daylight which is shown and explained perfectly by the Globe. This seems intentionally deceiving to your readers as(…more)
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share… 14/15
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4/18/24, 8:25 PM
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Michael Brenner's answer to What is the most accurate map of stationary flat Earth? - Quora
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About the Author
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Michael Brenner
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Studied Mechanical Engineering & Comparative Linguistics at Vienna University of Technology 981.2K content views 15.6K this month Active in 1 Space Joined August 2016
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Following · 583
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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-accurate-map-of-stationary-flat-Earth/answer/Michael-Brenner-13?ch=10&oid=389150608&share… 15/15
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